best choice for cooling

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RobinHoodxBlade
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ok to start off im in a horrible cooling enviroment

i would say a 50 degree C ambient temp.

i have a thermaltake v4 black tower

CPU : fx 4100 3.6 ghz

with stock cooler.

and i think this is were i went wrong.

my CPU temp averages at 60C and 65-70 is when it over heats and becomes laggy.

this is a custom build and the GPU stays cool and i will

be mounting the tower(on a shelf of some sort) on the wall because atm

it is sitting in a small crapped space recycling its warm/hot air.

so what im trying to ask what is the best setup for fans?

also what would be a good CPU cooler to buy?

ive looked and im just not certain because i found a decent one but

i think its not for AM3+.

this is that fan: http://microcenter.com/product/373766/GeminII_S524_Universal_CPU_Cooler

i buy my components here.

to be honest i dont know what to look for in a CPU fan ive seen a Q&A about it but need more info.

To RECAP:
so can someone explain better as in what to look for in CPU fans and case fans?

e.x bearing type, durability, low maintnence, and positioning.

sorry if this is a bit jumbled for a question but idk any better way to word it.

eire1274
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Have you replaced the cooling contact material, or are you using the included material AMD supplied?

The stock material on a clean CPU surface should get you around 40-45°C at idle, and 55-60°C at full load on a well ventilated case. Removing that and adding a silver-based paste like Arctic Silver 5 would improve temps. However, if you are seeing 50°C in the case itself, that is the problem! You can't cool a CPU with hot air!

Before you buy another cooler for your processor, buy a fan to blow cool air in! A couple 120mm fans would cost you very little and solve your problem instantly.

(Admin note: your use of the CR in the middle of a sentence makes your posts difficult to read. Personal opinion.)

Nick McDermott

RobinHoodxBlade
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Posts: 41

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/ProductHtml/image/VM30001W2Z/airCoolingSystem.jpg

to start off thanks for the reply but im certain i have enough intake fans.

the image i supplied is from thermaltake of the air flow design.

my fans are set up where on the removeable side panel i have a intake fan

and on the front of the case(altho im certain the side panel is not meant for a fan)

and a exhaust in the rear. Is this good? but the only issue is at its current arrangements

im certain it (from the side) sucks the hot air back up. and if im correct a more powerful

heatsink would remove more heat then currently being put out.

But yes i am using the stock material(thermal paste) that was pre-applied to the CPU

which i didnt think is a issue. i have some spare(half a tube+) of arctic silver 5.

should i remove the thermal paste and replace it? if you say yes then what is a better way

to remove the heatsink....on a old computer (the one i used the Arctic 5 on) i couldnt easily

remove the heatsink from the CPU and it yanked the CPU out of its socket(which i know is not good).

also about the 50C in the case i guess its a little over exaggerated as long as the cpu stays below 40 or so.

and what do you mean by the admin note?(CR?)

thanks in advance

TheRealMan
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Posts: 46

It sounds like with the area you have it located in and your computer case itself could be the actual issue. Do you know what type of case you currently have?

Depending on what you have, i would consider swapping your parts into a new case with better ventilation in your situation. perhaps something like this---> http://microcenter.com/product/383857/Three_Hundred_Two_ATX_Mid_Tower_Gaming_Computer_Case

GIGABYTE-X38-DS4 water cooled chipset - GTX 460 - Seagate 32MB(c) 500GB + Intel 120Gb SSD -- C2Q Q6600 3.4Ghz-8GB(4X2GB)- Thermaltake Toughpower 700W - Win 7 64-Bit Ultimate - CM-690
--Laptop T5850 C2D-750GB Seagate Momentous XT - 6GB 1X4/1X2 DDR2
--Server C2Q 6600@2.4- 4GB 2x2 - ATi 4850 Upgraded cooler - Seasonic 500 Modular - 2X 1.5TB WD/green 1X 320WD 1X2TB WD/black

eire1274
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RobinHoodxBlade wrote: and what do you mean by the admin note?(CR?)

CR is Carriage Return, or the Enter key. A double CR in the middle of a sentence makes it hard for me to figure out when a sentence ends, or worse when it is still going on and I think it's a new sentence.

Anyway, what I was saying is that if your case is 50°C interior air temperature, you do NOT have good airflow. Unless the room is very hot, you first need to be looking at improving airflow throughout the case before you look any other way, because the best heatsink on the market will not work with hot air. Period.

Swapping to Arctic Silver is a chore because the old material has polymerized due to heat, and to remove it you first have to twist the heatsink off (not pull it) until the material breaks, and then go through a long process with isopropyl alcohol solution (70/30) to remove all traces of the old stuff. But again, I would look at changing fan arrangements or adding fans before I would ever look at this, because AS5 will only be getting you a few degree change at best!

Nick McDermott

matacks
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zOMG 50 degrees C ambient!

man how do you or your desktop PC live there?

just get an air conditioner if you can man.

as far as thermal paste GELID Solutions GC-Extreme Thermal Compound is my fav.

.. to use this kind you must go with the spread method.

My PC lives in a 17.5 C environment so its always running pretty cool. At 122 degrees F. I seriusly wonder what the specs are for the cpu to perform correctly. I just dont know unless looking that sort of thing up.

but, hey wait. i think you must be trollin.lol is ther any place on earth thats 50C ambient.. unless your computer is in the Sahara dessert at high noon or something I dunno.. Still, its an interesting question.

RobinHoodxBlade
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Posts: 41

im not trolling but the temp might be a slight over exaggerated.

but i have the computer located in a real hot room and before i just moved it it was in a very
boxed location. so minimal to zero air flow and it recycled exhaust air(hot air) but now i have moved
the entire location of my computer to a new area and will be setting up a way to get it cool (e.x better ventalation) but all i can realy do would be raise it on a shelf to ensure full ventalation.

now for what ive done to the fans:
ive moved the exhaust fan to the top of my ThermalTake V4 Black
and left the intake to the front and side panel.
which is leaving it to run at (according to core temp)
27 min - 45 max C which i just started it and its odd how it occasionly peeks to 45.

could that be a sign of a bad sensor?

but weather or not ill be doing some stress testing later because im busy atm
and spent a few hours working on this setup :).

RobinHoodxBlade
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Posts: 41

ok i think the computer is back to normal(atleast mostly).

but i have some questions.

1.) is it true AMD(fx4100 is mine) processors have a 20 degree offset for there temps?(read it in Core Temp FAQs)

2.) on my THERMAL TAKE V4 Black case there is 2 exhaust ports on the top but my issue with this
is the second one(closest to the front of the case) i cant put a 120x120x25 mm fan in because
there is ram in the way so is there even thinner fans? or should i go with mini fans like 2-3
to go around the ram? or maybe put it external?(out side of the case)

3.) i noticed TheRealMan said that it could be my case causing heat issues.....is it? because i believed
thermaltake is a good brand and my cause is great also.

TheRealMan
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Ah, my apologies, i thought you were referring to the type of CPU cooler you had! i forgot that its coolermaster that makes the V# CPU coolers! hahah!

Anyway, to answer your questions... First off, i noticed that this case does Not come with a fan from the factory for the front, let alone very many at all! As Eire said, "Before you buy another cooler for your processor, buy a fan to blow cool air in!" I second that! If you are only using the single 120mm exhaust fan that thermaltake provides you with, this would very much cause issues. The problem with these newer cases is that they give you lots of places to put fans in, then they only give you one or two fans, this leads to a lack of air pressure! so most of what that fan is doing is actually just sucking cold air from the two top exhaust ports on top! its essential that you put fans in the spots or you will not get airflow where you want it! For the top exhaust issue, if im not mistaken, Yate Loon makes a very good 120mmx120mmx20mm low profile fan that is still nice and quiet!

I would personally recommend that you take the factory thermal paste off the CPU and replace it with something like Tuniq TX-2 Thermal Paste. Arctic Silver is great stuff, however, it is VERY electrically conductive and the TX-2 is non conductive, not to mention that its a bit cheaper, it preforms SLIGHTLY better in tests, and you get MUCH more in the syringe that you get from them!

As for the fx4100 having misreads on coretemp, its true that it could indeed be incorrect but most of the time its either coretemp trying to protect themselves by claiming a tolerance and that its not their fault if anything breaks! That or it could be a bios related issue that someone had in the past that very well could have been solved already!

Let me know if you have any questions!

-TRM

RobinHoodxBlade
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ok well no i dont just have the 1 120 mm fan anymore now i have 3 120 MM.

i moved the stock(included) on into the front intake and put 2 new long life sleeve bearing fans 1 on top
and one in the side panel(outtake top intake bottom).

For the thermal paste the best i can do is the Arctic Silver so what do you mean conductive? is it bad?
and for the air pressure should i take tape or something to seal off unused vents?(being that i have only one outtake?)

Also i have not received a answer for #2 on my previous post about a fan placement issue.

thanks for being cooperative :)

eire1274
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Conductive means nothing with embedded chips. On older processors like the one on the left, if your thermal paste slipped over the edges, you could be in trouble if it was conductive. On embedded chips, there is no worry because the whole surface is sealed under the metal plate.

Your case should be fine. Your current fan layout is good, however I might recommend an extra 120mm exhaust as well as one as exhaust on the rear panel. This will create a low pressure zone over the CPU, which will draw the side panel airflow down to the heatsink.

If you change the thermal compound, remember, TWIST the heatsink free, do not pull.

Nick McDermott

RobinHoodxBlade
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Posts: 41

thanks for the reply but i still have not gotten this answered....

" i cant put a 120x120x25 mm fan in because
there is ram in the way so is there even thinner fans?"

i believe there is thinner ones but is there anything bad with using them?
i think its 12mm.

also i posted this...

"or should i go with mini fans like 2-3
to go around the ram? or maybe put it external?(out side of the case)"

that would/could be an alternative for that spot?

and can you explain about the pressure? i thought high pressure is good being
that high pressure trys to escape the exhausts? but i see you say it should be
low around the cpu to suck air in the sidepanel.

*edit*ill just ask this here before spreading around.
has anyone heard of KMPMedia?

http://www.kmpmedia.net/

its a great media player but my Eset anti virus kept blocking a IP address when
the media was installed. could it of gave me a malware? or is it a false positive
with its updater?

eire1274
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RobinHoodxBlade wrote: thanks for the reply but i still have not gotten this answered....

" i cant put a 120x120x25 mm fan in because
there is ram in the way so is there even thinner fans?"

Sorry for the delay. The holiday season often has me away from the internet for longer periods that is healthy for geekdom.

Yes, fans do come thinner. I've used this on a mod a few years ago and had good results:

http://scythe-usa.com/product/acc/066/sy1212sl12_detail.html

Airflow is lower due to the slimmer design not getting as good a "grip" on the air, but a couple would get you a decent top ventilation.

RobinHoodxBlade wrote: and can you explain about the pressure? i thought high pressure is good being
that high pressure trys to escape the exhausts? but i see you say it should be
low around the cpu to suck air in the side panel.

Airflow is a tricky subject. Ideally, we want MORE air going in than the extracting fans are blowing out. This prevents intake of air through seams, side panels, etc., and helps reduce stagnant areas by creating more aggressive airflow patterns (turbulence) that a vacuum (or low pressure, more out than in) does. A low pressure case airflow scenario tends to create a straight line flow out the exhaust fans, where high pressure twists and turns around cards and components.

My comment on "low pressure" wasn't referring to the entire case flow, but over the heatsink itself. This is a simple trick that anyone can use: draw the air away from the heatsink area as fast as possible, and this low pressure will pull cold air in from other directions to fill the space. Simple rearrangement of exhaust vs. intake fans creating a low pressure zone over the CPU can drop temps by 5 degrees (or even better in low-profile server cases). If you can get that heat straight out of the case, it won't be recirculated around the case and temps will drop simply because of that.

I've never used KMPlayer before, but I've worked with similar open-source or freeware services like it. As it uses its own codec system, the system has to link with the server base to guarantee proper playback, so what you are seeing is probably the program trying to link with its home base. Overall it seems to be well reviewed.

Nick McDermott

RobinHoodxBlade
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Posts: 41

ya well thanks for all the information(altho the air pressure is a bit confusing ^^)
ill probably spend some money on 2 more exhaust fans (1 thin and another rear fan)
so that ill have max exhaust which should keep my computer down in temp.
lately its been doing fine with my room being almost as cold as the outside lol.(50c on high load 30 on low)

also i sort of came across a bad design in thermaltakes included power supply with this case....
it says that intake should also be place on the bottom of the case. but when i tried before i could not
fit it because the wires coming from the PSU where right in the way. they are in the way because
they come out the bottom half of the PSU . so my question is does some PSUs come with a design to fix this
problem? e.x coming right out from the top of it?(that would be my best choice)

do you have any recommendations for a CPU temp checker?(i dont trust core temp fully)

once again thanks for all the help with my issues ^^

and merry Christmas(/happy holidays)