ATI vs. NVIDIA for gaming rig build

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aperez88
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im building a mid range gaming rig and i'm having a hard time deciding between these two companies. i'm doing a dual video card setup for performance gaming and eventually a triple monitor surround setup. what card should i go with?

A. Dual Nvidia GTX470

B. Dual ATI HD 5850

C. Something better than A & B

it'll be running off a O.C. core i7 920, air cooled by a CM V8 pushing between 3.3 - 3.6 GHz, w/ 6GB of triple channel DDR3 Ram @1333, all on a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard. PSU is gonna be 900W 80+ gold and i got x2 500GB 7200RPM hard drives that'll be running in RAID 0. it'll be running Windows 7 Ultimate as the operating system.

the rig is on a budget of ~$1500 (not including monitors or operating system) so i can't go crazy with the graphics. any suggestions would be great, thanks.

KoutaFG
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if yeah have an intel cpu/board its always best to go with an Nvidia video card, unless the specs of the ATI card is much better then the Nvidia card.

I think that things just run better when you match your mobo with your video card but that's just my thoughts.

ASRock 990FX Extreme3 CPU: Phenom II X4 945e 3.0 Ram:(2 x 4GB DDR3 ) GPU : HIS 2GB 6950 PSU: Corsair 850w

undeadkingpr
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1. Kouta is mistaken-Cards run identically-only fanboi's say otherwise

2. Right now I'd probably go with the 470's although it is very close. A 470 will barely beat a 5850 right now but in future games it handles AA/AF/Pysx far easier than the ATI will. So when the games start using more of that sutff then you won't have to replace.

3. If you have not goten the 920 yet then dont-Get a 930-it OC's .3 ghz better and is newer.

4. Ultimate? do you speak english? If the answer is yes then a desktop has little to no benefit from ultimate. Downgrade to PRO x64 bit to save some cash-it still has all the great features of ultimat without the price tag.

p.s are you a university student or know a university student? If so windows is FREE!!!

5. Raid 0 is a bad idea. Yet it maximizes performance but it is know to frequently crash. I reccomend Raid 5 which is 90% as fast and far more stable.

Have fun buildint it!

@University rig-Haf 922-i7 920- ASUS GENE MB- 6gb OCZ ddr3 1600-GTS 250- Acer 23'-ocz 700w psu-Altec expressionist bass speakers-LG dvd multi drive-Rosewill media reader

aperez88
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my university is mad cheap. the tech department is remedial at best and offer only vista, which i have on my laptop, and i hate it. as for all other suggestions, thanks. i will take them into consideration for the final build. i've been holding off on buying the cpu, motherboard and graphics card to the end, hoping for price-drops to happen before i commit.

Tiv
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It's hard to say really. There was a time years ago when I hated ATI video cards because of their drivers and game support. These days with AMD in the mix they seem to get things fixed and release lots of drivers. I wanted an Nvidia card because I was used to having them in my system, but Rodney's sponsors gave me ATI cards. My first one recently was a 3850 AGP. It was good at first but later there was no support and it kind of ticked me off, but it's okay now. Now I have a 4870 from HIS and it plays just about every game I have nicely. Finally with Nvidia making DX11 cards they are kind of back in the game again. However the king right now is still AMD's 5000's cards with better specs and improving drivers. Either one of those cards will be good enough for games. With triple monitor surround setup you might want the ATI Enfinity cards more than the Nvidia.

I sleep fine at night knowing we are banning people who deserve it.  Tivon
Don't test my skills, I was trained by myself! Check out my Gaming Videos!

Tiv
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KoutaFG wrote:

if yeah have an intel cpu/board its always best to go with an Nvidia video card, unless the specs of the ATI card is much better then the Nvidia card.

I think that things just run better when you match your mobo with your video card but that's just my thoughts.

Some Intel Motherboards support ATI CrossFireX. If that's the case then an ATI card is best. Just depends on the chipset and the motherboard. The board he has picked comes with support for 2-Way/3-Way ATI CrossFireX/NVIDIA SLI technology. So it does not matter what he gets.

Dragonbane1976
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forget about vs... Combine ATI CARD with Nvidia Card to get the best results.. Use the power of the ATI with the power of Phxys of Nvidia and trust me....YOU LOVE THE RESULTS....

rocstar96
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YOU ARE MY PERSONAL HERO.

Motherboard: Foxconn FlamingBlade CPU: Core™ i7 920 @3.5GHz                                                                           GPU: Sapphire HD 5770 CF Memory Corsair 6GB(DDR3-1333)                                                                            HDD: 32GB SSD(Boot) 2TB(Storage) PSU: Silverston 800W                                                                                      Case: Storm Sniper BE CPU HSF: Corsair H50

undeadkingpr
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Dragonbane1976 wrote:

forget about vs... Combine ATI CARD with Nvidia Card to get the best results.. Use the power of the ATI with the power of Phxys of Nvidia and trust me....YOU LOVE THE RESULTS....

Up until 3 months ago you COULD do that-not it is almost impossible

Nvidia card DISABLES physx if it detects an ATI card in your system

undeadkingpr
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Dragonbane1976 wrote:

forget about vs... Combine ATI CARD with Nvidia Card to get the best results.. Use the power of the ATI with the power of Phxys of Nvidia and trust me....YOU LOVE THE RESULTS....

 double post

RuffeDK
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Those GTX 470's in SLI will easily outperform them HD5850.

If I were you, though, I'd rathe wait 'till June, and see how the new GTX460 performs. Should be equally to HD5850 in price and performance... or, that's what they say.

[Intel Core i7 @ 4GHz - EVGA X58 SLI - 6 GB Corsair Dominator - GTX 295 - SilverStone FT01]

Salavat23
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The GTX 470 beats out he 5850 plain and simple. Give nVidia some time to get their drivers whipped into shape, and that GTX 470 may very well surpass the performance of the 5870.

Also, SLI is a clear winner over CrossFire. SLI'ed GTX 470s have no problem outbenching 5870 CF.

undeadkingpr
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Also of note is the fact that 470's are the way of the future with far more manuevering room for 16xAA and AF

Tiv
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I'm not so ready to jump back into the Nvidia arena just yet. I'm still unimpressed by the new cards and old rehashing. 470's are not a fact of future anything IMHO. 5850 is cheaper than a 470. Nvidia has had enough time to get their drivers into shape! How long did everyone wait for Fermi? And are you WOW'ed by it's lack luster of performance vs ATI and the added higher wattage? Seems like a long wait to finally enter the battle of gaming cards. You guys talk about it being a clear winning with SLI over Crossfire, well lets see those jaded Nvidia fanboy benchmarks. Most people will buy single cards and a very few will actually have two video cards. It's going to come down to performance & features & Dollars.

Salavat23
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Jared Maynard wrote:

I'm not so ready to jump back into the Nvidia arena just yet. I'm still unimpressed by the new cards and old rehashing. 470's are not a fact of future anything IMHO. 5850 is cheaper than a 470. Nvidia has had enough time to get their drivers into shape! How long did everyone wait for Fermi? And are you WOW'ed by it's lack luster of performance vs ATI and the added higher wattage? Seems like a long wait to finally enter the battle of gaming cards. You guys talk about it being a clear winning with SLI over Crossfire, well lets see those jaded Nvidia fanboy benchmarks. Most people will buy single cards and a very few will actually have two video cards. It's going to come down to performance & features & Dollars.

You say that the 5850 is cheaper than the GTX 470. And it is. But the GTX 470 is also cheaper than the 5870. With performance figures leaning towards the 5870 with newer drivers, the card isn't as bad as its made out to be.

Sure it uses more power, but the card has other features going for it as well.

RuffeDK
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Jared Maynard wrote:

...

If you are going to build an extreme gaming rig (in this case we will put 2x 470 in SLI), I don't think you care if your system uses 600W or 700W, if you already have a good PSU, and CAN afford the electrical bill. If you're gonna have a good rig, nothings gonna stand in your way! Lemme put it another way...

It's like a car: don't buy a Ferrari if you can't afford to full it up every day.

- Don't buy the hardware if you can't afford the electrical bills.

Ofcource, a guy like me, with a 700W PSU can barely have 2x 470 in SLI + 4GHz Core i7. So I'm kinda stuck, when it comes to upgrading.

But hell, I don't care, cause my GTX 295 still kick some serious ass. And if it can't play what I want it to, I'm gonna crank that s#!t up! My overclocks are higher than a reviewer on overclockers.net, (on stock aircooler.), so I'm ready for Metro 2033 and Crysis 2 (Crysole, rofl).

Nvidia makes damn fine products, and their drivers are top-dollar. Also, keep in mind that if you buy Nvidia, you'll get aaaaall that nice free software with you, like PhysX, CUDA, awesome demoes, Folding @ Home, ect, ect... don't even think about hacked drivers for ATi... nuthin' else but rubbish bulls#!t that jaloux ATi fanatics decided to do... f*** 'em

So my worthless 2 cent: Buy Nvidia, cause it just work, and if you use it the right way, it's even cheaper than you thought.

Tiv
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Let's not leave out heat as well. Some times it's hard to tell with Nvidia because they have always been really good at tweaking performance.

Tiv
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RuffeDK wrote:

Jared Maynard wrote:

...

If you are going to build an extreme gaming rig (in this case we will put 2x 470 in SLI), I don't think you care if your system uses 600W or 700W, if you already have a good PSU, and CAN afford the electrical bill. If you're gonna have a good rig, nothings gonna stand in your way! Lemme put it another way...

It's like a car: don't buy a Ferrari if you can't afford to full it up every day.

- Don't buy the hardware if you can't afford the electrical bills.

Ofcource, a guy like me, with a 700W PSU can barely have 2x 470 in SLI + 4GHz Core i7. So I'm kinda stuck, when it comes to upgrading.

But hell, I don't care, cause my GTX 295 still kick some serious ass. And if it can't play what I want it to, I'm gonna crank that s#!t up! My overclocks are higher than a reviewer on overclockers.net, (on stock aircooler.), so I'm ready for Metro 2033 and Crysis 2 (Crysole, rofl).

Nvidia makes damn fine products, and their drivers are top-dollar. Also, keep in mind that if you buy Nvidia, you'll get aaaaall that nice free software with you, like PhysX, CUDA, awesome demoes, Folding @ Home, ect, ect... don't even think about hacked drivers for ATi... nuthin' else but rubbish bulls#!t that jaloux ATi fanatics decided to do... f*** 'em

So my worthless 2 cent: Buy Nvidia, cause it just work, and if you use it the right way, it's even cheaper than you thought.

Typical. You have no DX11 and can't even use two 470's because not enough PSU power. And if I recall it's Nvidia drivers that are hacked to not work with ATI cards. ATI also has folding.

Dude Chill on the swearing!

I support all sides of hardware because it's good for PC's. There are things Nvidia does wrong and right, same for AMD/ATI. I'm not about to spend 370$ on an Nvidia card just to have DX11. I would rather get a cheaper AMD card and not worry about a new PSU. And to top it off PhysX is overated, my 2 cents.

RuffeDK
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Oh, and in fact I should be able to run 2x 470's in my system. Maybe i have a 700W quad-rail PSU, but i actually has 20A on each rail, which is quite impressive for a high-end PSU.

undeadkingpr
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Tivon-

 Yes we should be bi-artisan in the matter and I actually think ATI has the upper hand right now but if that #%$@#%ing CEO of Nvidia dropped the price on the 470 from $360 to $320 I think it would be a LOT harder of a decision to make.

DX11 is overated-AS of right now there are like 3 maybe 4 worthwhile DX11 games 7 months after its release. Also cranking up the detail of a game with DX10.1 yields a better image then a 5750/70 struggling to keep up at medium settings in DX11.

Nvidia drivers are definetely better than catalyst-and no they are not "hacked"-you can have both an Nvidia card and ATI card in the same system but physx will be disabled. Google it and you can find ways to re-enable it pretty easily. Catalyst has always had problems including but not limited to:CF stuttering, sudden crashes, mouse disappearing, dropped support, and patchy performance.  I honestly think if ATI hired the NVidia driver team that it would be, "Game over man, Game over".

Ati cards are atrociouse at folding-a 250 is like 4x better than a 5870-Ati just has not bothered to write drivers since 07'-Catalyst coming up again.

 You can run two 470's and an OC'd i7 with just a 700W psu-not that expensive either.

Tiv
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RuffeDK wrote:

Oh, and in fact I should be able to run 2x 470's in my system. Maybe i have a 700W quad-rail PSU, but i actually has 20A on each rail, which is quite impressive for a high-end PSU.

You will not be able to use two 470's with a 700watt PSU and that's a fact. Do a search on Google search and you will see spikes of 730 ~ 800 watts just for the two cards, then there is the system, drives, fans and ect..

And again, Chill out on the cussing! Last warning.

RuffeDK
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Jared Maynard wrote:

Typical. You have no DX11 and can't even use two 470's because not enough PSU power. And if I recall it's Nvidia drivers that are hacked to not work with ATI cards. ATI also has folding.

Dude Chill on the swearing!

I support all sides of hardware because it's good for PC's. There are things Nvidia does wrong and right, same for AMD/ATI. I'm not about to spend 370$ on an Nvidia card just to have DX11. I would rather get a cheaper AMD card and not worry about a new PSU. And to top it off PhysX is overated, my 2 cents.

I swear I replied to this post... where teh hell is it?! D:

undeadkingpr
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Jared Maynard wrote:

RuffeDK wrote:

Oh, and in fact I should be able to run 2x 470's in my system. Maybe i have a 700W quad-rail PSU, but i actually has 20A on each rail, which is quite impressive for a high-end PSU.

You will not be able to use two 470's with a 700watt PSU and that's a fact. Do a search on Google search and you will see spikes of 730 ~ 800 watts just for the two cards, then there is the system, drives, fans and ect..

And again, Chill out on the cussing! Last warning.

Hardware Canucks said the peak was far less-

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/30999-nvidia-geforce-gtx-470-sli-review-17.html

Still pretty close with an i7+system but i think you could do it with 700W. To be safe 800-900 is probably better but with some tweaking you'd be good.

 Is he actualy fucking cursing or are you editing his text-lol-this is a test btw

undeadkingpr
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BTW: Quotes are finally working nicely-Send compliments to Z

Tiv
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RuffeDK wrote:

Jared Maynard wrote:

Typical. You have no DX11 and can't even use two 470's because not enough PSU power. And if I recall it's Nvidia drivers that are hacked to not work with ATI cards. ATI also has folding.

Dude Chill on the swearing!

I support all sides of hardware because it's good for PC's. There are things Nvidia does wrong and right, same for AMD/ATI. I'm not about to spend 370$ on an Nvidia card just to have DX11. I would rather get a cheaper AMD card and not worry about a new PSU. And to top it off PhysX is overated, my 2 cents.

I swear I replied to this post... where teh hell is it?! D:

I deleted it, that's where the hell it is.. lol

Tiv
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undeadkingpr wrote:

Jared Maynard wrote:

RuffeDK wrote:

Oh, and in fact I should be able to run 2x 470's in my system. Maybe i have a 700W quad-rail PSU, but i actually has 20A on each rail, which is quite impressive for a high-end PSU.

You will not be able to use two 470's with a 700watt PSU and that's a fact. Do a search on Google search and you will see spikes of 730 ~ 800 watts just for the two cards, then there is the system, drives, fans and ect..

And again, Chill out on the cussing! Last warning.

Hardware Canucks said the peak was far less-

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/30999-nvidia-geforce-gtx-470-sli-review-17.html

Still pretty close with an i7+system but i think you could do it with 700W. To be safe 800-900 is probably better but with some tweaking you'd be good.

 Is he actualy fucking cursing or are you editing his text-lol-this is a test btw

We don't talk about Hardware Canucks around these parts anymore. Long story about one image that looked like one of theirs in one of Rods videos. Rodney does all his own work, so maybe it slipped in there some how, uh honestly I don't know, maybe even Rodney doesn't know. But I trust Rodney and he claims he did nothing wrong. Normally it would not be a big deal because Rodney would just redo the video if asked nicely, but something must have happened to tick him off after they went all public. It's not as if it's our goal in life to rip people off. They where able to change the images around to make it look like their work. I was unable to twist the pictures to look anything like what they had, So go figure. Rodney removed the video and re-did the video using fresh pictures. Problem solved.

I'm surprised they have not been added to our filters because Rod was pretty pissed, but maybe it's time to put these old problems in the past and mend new relations.

-------------------

Let's not sugar coat the power problem, it comes down to just how good your psu really is and most are just average. Two 470's will need at least a 900 or 1000 watt PSU. With that much video power there would need to be a nice CPU and that pretty much pushes the PSU into the 1200watt range.

-------------------

It was not the ********* stuff, it was actual cursing. When people bypass the filters to say bad words, I will delete the whole post without question. People need to chill out when they type about heated topics. I'd rather delete post than disable accounts, because there is nothing to remind me to enable those accounts later and my long term memory is foggy.

undeadkingpr
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1200 Watt for a 470 SLI+i7-no way-that is way over doing it-Ive seen 295

s SLI'd on an i7 with a 700W PSU and a 470 is in that range.

 

Why such a huge fight over stupid pictures? Google image the thing and put them in lol.

I did not see that much non **** cursing-He just put in some #$%$#@% symbols

p.s why does it think that's a hyperlink-lol?

Tiv
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1000 watt or 900 watt is probably safe enough.

What pictures are we fighting over?

There was a F-type words if I recall right. All the same I'm the moderator, AKA Lord Jesus Christ of 3GM forum..lol

RuffeDK
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Intel Core i7: 135W

2 x GTX 470: (215W x 2)

= 565W, a good PSU of minimum 600W

I remember Albert from TigerDirect ran a GTX295 system on a Corsair 620W just fine. And as you can see from Nvidia's homepage, they recommend a 680W PSU as a minimum. What I'm saying is, that there is a huge difference between a cheap 700W, and a 80+ Gold Certified 700W PSU. And no, it's not about prices.

Tiv
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RuffeDK wrote:

Intel Core i7: 135W

2 x GTX 470: (215W x 2)

= 565W, a good PSU of minimum 600W

I remember Albert from TigerDirect ran a GTX295 system on a Corsair 620W just fine. And as you can see from Nvidia's homepage, they recommend a 680W PSU as a minimum. What I'm saying is, that there is a huge difference between a cheap 700W, and a 80+ Gold Certified 700W PSU. And no, it's not about prices.

That's not accounting for any overclocking, the hard drives, cooling fans, motherboard, and memory. And it's very important to not that a 600 watts PSU does not mean you can use 600 watts. Almost all PSU's have an Efficiency rating, most at 80%.  When you overload it uses more electricity, produces more heat and may shorten the life span or simply cut off at random times while playing. The video cards might not even run at full speed and stutter.

I would not trust anything on Nvidia's homepage on what power it needs. All of these manufactures are notorious for under scoring the real world requirements.

Corsair is better than most brands because they use single and double 12 volt rails, it's a good brand.

RuffeDK
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I must say, that quad-railed PSUs ain't the best, even though they are pumped with Amps, and +87% efficiency.

And to be honest, I don't know how much power a 4GHz overclocked i7 920 get's fed with, but what I do know is, that my PSU CAN run a 4GHz Core i7, GTX295 (OC), 5 fans, and 1 HDD, which is pretty good for a 700W.

One last note; as a mod, it's an extremely bad way of behavior, when deleting other users posts, cause they disagree with you. I just said goodbye from a PC-forum, cause a retarded Mac-boy got the Mod-status. Not because I hate Macs, cause I don't... but I hated him after serval conversations before he was a Mod. Trust me, I won't be here for long if I'm getting blamed cause I like Nvidia, and Rodney don't.

I'm an Nvidiot, after serval frustrating years with ATi. 2 years with Green Team now, and I've never looked back since. ATi epicly failed on me.

Very last note; I'm currently searching for a forum that isn't flooded with fanboism. Even my 2 beloved years at Nvidia SLI-Zone makes me sick since ChrisRay said goodbye, and that nZone Nvidia-fanboy Admin took his place. 3GM, don't fail on me, too.